Fixer Upper | Week 2 | Sermon

And that's why to having critical conversations and talking about tough things and working through conflict is so hard. Because that video kinda just says it, doesn't it? I mean, Carrie's the one that found it on social media because I don't have social media because I'm a Christian. So but

no. Just kidding. But why why did you you you saw that and said, I think this kinda sums up where what makes conflict resolution so difficult? Well, because well, I just love how so accurately that depicts what's really going on inside of us

as we react and respond to to these things, you know, that the insecurities, the fears, the the past hurts, past experiences, and it comes out. But honestly, my favorite part of that was she's like, just trying to get through. Trying to get through. Yeah.

Oh, by the way, I'm Bill, if you're new, and this is my wife, Carrie, and we've been married for you know, really soon it'll be thirty three years. Thirty three years. All in a row. In a row. Yeah. And so we're continuing our our streak.

But yeah. That video is it's kinda what we wanna package today is is if you're in any today is is great because this doesn't just apply to marriage. We're gonna walk it through as in our marriage. But how to have critical conversations without becoming critical. How to how to how to have this this applies to every relationship.

And what we wanna really unpackage today is this big idea that we need to learn how to fight the problem, not the person. Yeah. How do we fight the problem, not the and I know what many of are saying, what if the problem is the person?

That's what that video was showing. A lot of times you think it's the person, but you gotta fight for the person instead against them. In other words, how do we get to the point that we don't shoot the prisoners of war?

How do we see the person on the other side as somebody that we can fight for and help walk through rather than just get stuck with you're just the problem? And and what does that look like? Because it actually says in Proverbs seventeen fourteen, it says starting a coral is like opening a floodgate.

So it's saying starting coral is like like like like you're gonna start to have this floodgate that lets them out. That coral is the conversation you're starting to have. It's it's good. It's gonna happen.

But it says, but stop before a dispute breaks out. Coral is different than the dispute. The coral is you're gonna have tough moments, and you need the floodgate. But if you if you if you keep going, the dam might break. Mhmm.

If you don't learn how to stop it. And and it says, so that's what we need to do. It's like we need to learn how to manage those tough moments

before they the the dam breaks. Because when the dam breaks, you can't put that water back and there's a lot of damage you have to deal with. And so how do we walk through that? And so this this talk, what we wanna share is is from scripture and from wisdom, from years of experience,

a plan of how do you walk through those moments. Because in relationships, it's not all smooth, straight, easy paved road. You're gonna have some ups and downs, and some hard surfaces to walk over, and some challenges.

And so how do we walk through that? And like the video shows, and before we jump into the steps, it's to take these steps of doing this. We understand we also bring in not just our biases, our past, some of these struggles.

We bring in personality too. Our temperament. Our type of how we see things. And and I see that there's basically two types of of of

temperaments that people bring into conflict management based on their personality and just the way they view things. And some of our dysfunctions and and and and fears and and all and narratives kinda play into there too.

And and and so what shoes are we wearing that causes the problem? Mhmm. And so we are obviously the the opposite shoe because those are the two people that always end up married. Because I think two of the same don't tend to get married too often, unless they were woke up drunk in Vegas, and then they they did. But but

for me, when it when I'm talking about this temperament style of how that can cause further cause a problem is is this combat boot here. This is this is my my conflict management style. See now conflict the combat boot is someone like you know, combat boots, they're they're they're designed for going over rough terrain.

They're designed to go up things, down things, rocky hilly. They're designed for the rough terrain. The problem with the combat boot is you're going over that rough terrain because you're looking for a victory. You're looking for a battle, and you're looking to win.

And and and and so the style for me is when I go in and we get becomes conflicted, I might be willing to go into this this this tough moment and and go in. And and even with with us and Mary, but even in a lot of my elderly, but especially with us,

I go in. I I don't think I'm being a combat person, but I really am. I I I go in there and I'm willing to charge in and go through this tough terrain, but it's more like we gotta fight this out. We gotta we gotta work this out, and we gotta we gotta get this done. And and the the problem is when you have this style, you quickly turn it into there has to be a winner and there has to be a loser.

And and and and for I realized another way to say this because some of you might say, well, guess I push and I go after I'm not talking about you're just a combative person. I I I don't really go after it like I'm a combative person. It's more of the mentality. Another way to say this is I'm a repeater.

A repeater is someone that's like I I I the way my temp my my personality is, I I'm the type of person that says, if I can just say it one more way, one more of this, then they'll get it.

You know, it's like that's I preach that way a lot. You know, why does he keep saying the same thing? Because I just feel like if I could just say it one more way, they're all gonna get it, which which which was that. So you just keep repeating, repeating, repeating. And and and and I think it's gonna work. And usually, it just makes the other person mad because are you insulting my intelligence? I understood what you said the first time. I just don't agree with you. And and and so that's kind of this this this one. And the problem is it can cause a real problem if it with the other type, which is Guess

what I am. So I am I'm the runner, which is ironic because I can't run to save my life, but yeah so kind of the the running part of me is sort of the dark side unhealthy side of my conflict management style, which is more contemplative. I need some time to think about it. I want to

process things a little more. I have to really fully understand what's happening, all of that. But yeah, I when it comes to that that conflict,

I I wanna run. So like if he's coming if he's coming at me with those combat boots and like we have to deal with this, when are we gonna deal with this, we need deal with this now. I'm like dude, I dealt with it. It's over there. I'm over here now. I left it over there. It's been dealt I ran over here. The problem is,

I'm over here with it. And and and that creates so then guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna hike through there and and and hunt you down and keep repeating repeating repeating.

And another way to call a runner is he's like, well, don't feel like I totally run, but it's a retriever. Yeah. It's more like this person's coming at me and keeps repeating.

And and if you notice that one of you if you're married right now, one of you is a repeater and one of you is a retreater. I'm pretty guaranteed. I'm much or if you're both repeaters, it's like you should probably you probably already tried counseling a couple times, and and and if you're retreaters, you'd think there's nothing wrong with your marriage.

And and the reason is because you don't really have much of a relationship. You just live together and do your things side by side. And and and and and in some ways. Ultimately, I have found as the runner trying to avoid the conflict or trying to avoid the the discomfort any anytime you try and avoid conflict,

it tends to create more conflict. Yeah. When you when you try to flee it, it creates more. Yeah. And then for those of us that are like me, the the combat boot, when you try to force it, it causes more. So we carry these these shoes in white. And so in other words,

this person, I will be willing to have the tough conversation. The problem is I turn it into a a a battle. I'm seeking a victory. You know, not not resolution, but a revolution at this point. And and and the problem with the runner is is they don't wanna running shoes doesn't like uneven terrain.

Yeah. So you just wanna stay on that smooth road and you you won't get off road. So that that's what makes it so hard to have tough conversations and to resolve things. Mhmm. So the reality is what we wanna share here is is is our steps of plans on how do you get the third shoe,

which is a hiking boot. You see a hiking boot is designed for tough terrain just like a combat boot. But the difference is you're not looking for a fight, you're looking for a a view. You're looking to be healthier. When you go hiking together,

you're you're you're yeah. You're gonna go down the valleys. You're gonna walk through the tough spot. You're gonna have those tough climbs. You're sweaty and you're exhausted, and that was a lot of hard work, but you're gonna do it together. And the whole goal is we're gonna get to the this other place together. And at the end of the hike, there's two things that happen. You have a better view.

And in a relationship that means you have a bigger, better perspective of what's going on. And just like hiking, you're healthier. You end up getting healthier. You have a healthier relationship.

That's why we need to go through the conflict. That's why we need to walk through the tough terrain. We need to climb those hills. We need to walk through those valleys,

and and we need to to to deal with that. So that's what we really wanna wanna talk about. And and we got these five steps that you take in in in these hiking boots on how to say it. How to how to say things.

And and the first one is you say it. You gotta be willing to say it. Matthew eighteen fifteen says this. If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. Now that is very being very specific about two believers and someone does say they hurt you, you you

need to be the one that goes and talks about it. And you try to win the person back. It's a general principle in scripture that says, you know what? If you're gonna have a relationship that goes anywhere that take that gets to a better place and is healthier, you have to talk about tough things.

And so the first point to say it is, are you committed and willing to say we're going to have intentional communication?

Because a lot of people think any conflict's bad. Right? Yeah. You just Yeah. No. I think that's what I you know, there is probably a belief out there or it could be or this narrative that that conflict is bad. But it's not. Conflict is actually good and it can be used the making up afterwards.

Okay. So anyway, point one was She doesn't like how off script I go all the time, but As if I'm not used to it. Yeah. Thirty three years. Right. Right. I'm so shocked.

Did I ruin your train of thought? No. I was done. I said conflict was good. Okay.

So But with with saying it? Oh, saying it. Oh, I guess I wasn't done. Yeah. We gotta get back to the message. We'll have to deal with it. We'll be practicing these four steps, five steps. No. Conflict. Being willing to have those intentional commune that intentional communication, which also involves listening.

So you gotta say it, speak it, but you need to listen, which I also think is funny because Bill did this outline, and it's a good outline, but it all it all of it involves talking, speaking.

He didn't put anything on like for say it. That's what a combat person would do. Yeah. Matter of fact, someone pointed out that I I I must have subconsciously I dressed like I'm going into combat. I'm like operation desert storm. Here I come. Right. Yeah. So anyway, we're gonna listen. Yes. We're gonna

I did mean that when I said say. It means willing to go on the journey together. Yeah. It implies all of the stuff you say, also have to listen. To listen. Because we wanna listen we wanna speak and listen without the filters of our own insecurities and that whole, you know, the fears and the the narratives

that we have. Because we want we wanna communicate not to just transfer information, not to build a case, but really to to build understanding Yes. And to work towards resolution. Yeah. Well, that does lead to the next point, which is say it straight. And it says in Ephesians four fifteen,

instead we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ who is the head of his body, the church. So in relationships, you gotta get the truth in love. Yeah. And so the pathway is love,

but the destination is truth. That's the point of view. And and when you say it, you gotta say it straight. Otherwise, you never really get to truth, but it's gotta be through love. And so when you hear say it straight, people think, oh, that means

if you're a combat boot person, you're like, oh, I couldn't agree more. I'm totally killing this test right now. Because I mean, I'll say it and I will say it straight. That's not what it means. Half the time, you think you're doing good. Saying it straight doesn't mean you're just willing to say the things. Straight means you have it straight. You have an understanding of yourself straight. You have an understanding where the other person is straight. You have to have this under clarity in there. In other words,

saying it straight means I have to bring self awareness into my conversation, and listening means I have situational awareness of what they're really saying. And

and and right? So that's really That's that's what I think is so powerful. So yeah. Saying it with clarity and honesty exactly even more to your point of having that self awareness. There's there's got to be this element where you know why you have an understanding of yourself of why something is really hits up or brings

up these senses of insecurity or fears or or whatever. So that does take some work really outside of the know the time of the conflict of conversation. Need to you got to understand what is going on and what brings up some of these things because you don't wanna just blame the other person for it. You need to understand.

You need to have that understanding. Because then the problem becomes the person. Right. And that's that's not right. Yeah. There there's studies actually in emotional intelligence, is knowing yourself, knowing what's going on, that being aware of your own emotions and others emotions

can greatly improve conversation quality. Yeah. A lot of the fights we end up in is we don't even know why we're really upset, and we have no understanding of what this person is really saying or doing because we didn't listen.

And when you don't know why you're upset, you're reacting to what they do, and then you create a narrative. Yeah. A narrative, oh, I know what you're doing. And you actually start judging them, and you and we sometimes you do it. Like, you said this because. Mhmm. Because we don't know the other person's because. Right.

And then we get mad at the because. And and and that's kind of what we we've done that in the past. You end up in these fights and you don't say it straight. You don't speak with clarity. You don't speak with honesty. Because you don't even know what is clear and

Like, had to be honest that sometimes I was under this guise of being the the repeater oftentimes or the combat boot. However you wanna say it. Is is is if you're really trying to be a Christian,

I've used this and you might choose like, hey, you know what? God says we gotta deal with this before the sun sets, which we're gonna talk about in a few minutes. And and we gotta be so you're you're saying it because you're saying, I we need to talk right now. And a runner might need a minute, you know? Like, they they might need a a a moment. And and then you get into this moment and and you force it. And then what I had to realize is that's not really why I'm doing this.

Mhmm. I've learned that my personality is the way she is. She's like the Colonel Hannibal on the IA team. It's like, hey, me a second. I do okay. Give me time to have a plan. I'm unstoppable.

She reflects on things and has to look at things. And I knew that when we get a fight, I'm insecure. I just wanna be right because I'm looking for a victory. I have my insecurities, my frustrations, my things, my narrative I've built. And I figured out right away that if I can get you to turn and face me quickly on the field of combat before you really knew what happened, I can shock and awe you, and I can win.

And and and that's what I was doing. Mhmm. And and it came out of insecurities and all this stuff. And and the problem with that is if you ever

You see, come we're we're used to trying to fight. Runners, retreaters, they try to avoid it. So if there is nothing more feral than when you have a runner that finally realizes I'm cornered, so now I'm gonna fight you. Because at least the combat I go in and I feel like I'm an honorable soldier. We have Geneva Convention.

We have some rules of engagement. Yes. I wanna destroy your argument and win. But I'm not gonna go nuclear. I'm not gonna, you know, shoot the prisoners. I'm not gonna go below the belt. I mean

Runners, when they decide to fight, go feral. It's it's a barroom brawl. They will break a beer bottle on the bar and stab you in the neck. It's survival. Pure survival. Yeah. And and and and and and I say that not because like because but I have to realize I helped create that

because I tried to force something. And then then you'll jump in and You know what? I wanted to go back to something even you said earlier about having that clarity and honesty and knowing why. I think there's an element to this too is you can say speaking with clarity and honesty can also sound like saying,

I don't actually understand what's going on inside right now. But this whatever is happening, it's it's bringing something up, and you know that feeling. You know when that happens, and sometimes you don't know why. Take a note of that and go back and and look at it and and pull it apart, do that stuff. But it is okay,

and I think it's really good to say, I'm not sure actually what's going on, but I don't understand right now. But something is causing me to feel Instead of saying Instead of using your narrative to say, I'm upset because of you. Because of yeah. Maybe something they did is upsetting,

but the the the it might be deeper than just this moment. Yeah. And and then then you can catch it, and that usually will if you can say that, it might calm the other person. Hey. Let's let's Yeah. You What do you think is upsetting? Now we're on the same side. Now take my hand, let's hike through this together. Yeah.

And and I I like you said it because it's like a lot of times anger comes out and anger is Anger is is so actually anger is a secondary emotion, and it stems from hurt and fear, which which is so interesting to me because hurt if if you just like hurt and fear, those are very vulnerable emotions. So it's easier to be angry

and respond in that way than to share and be vulnerable. It's very counterintuitive. You want to protect yourself when you're scared or hurt. So it makes sense that we would wanna respond in anger over that. And that's what complicates it for all of us, but especially for us guys. Because fear

Anger is a secondary emotion. It always is. And yet when we get angry, we never step back and say, why am I angry? We just think it's that immediate thing. I'm angry right now, so it must be this. But guys, for guys, I know this. Anger is almost our only secondary emotion. It's

like every other emotion takes us to anger. So it's like if we don't you didn't hurt my feelings, you hurt my feeling, You know, because it doesn't matter. It's whatever feeling I get hurt.

I'm not a guy's not gonna go, that hurt my feelings. We're gonna get mad. A guy's not gonna say, I'm scared. We're gonna get mad. A guy's not gonna say, I'm tired and I'm stressed out at work. I'm gonna get mad. A guy's not gonna you know, it's like everything we go to, we get angry. A guy's not gonna sit there and go, you know what? I can't help you, and I'm trying. I I I don't know what to do. I I won't admit that. I'll get mad.

I mean, it it it it it it Yeah. You know? And so that's what it means to speak say it straight. Yeah. It's it's more like get it straight Yeah. Of what's really happening with self awareness, your own narratives, and listening for situational awareness. Mhmm. Otherwise,

if you go the retreat repeat, the runner, the combat boot, the runner doesn't even wanna listen. They just wanna go. They don't wanna talk or do anything. We may wanna engage guys, but but the combat person, we we might listen in this moment, but we're we're not hearing. We might stop talking.

But you know you do it if you're like me. I am not actually listening for understanding. I'm using this moment of ceasefire to reload.

And I'm thinking of how I'm gonna take this conversation to attack what you're saying, and how I'm gonna twist it over here to to go this direction. And that's how you end up at these distractionary, you know, all these separate fights break out at that moment. Mhmm.

Because you'll sit there and go they'll try to share something with your audience. You go, well, what about and then you're mad because you take your narrative. And if you feel like they make a good point back to you, but you're still mad and your narrative is like, okay, fine. Touche.

But you'll I'm gonna outflank you. Well, what about the time you did this? What about this? What about that? And you end up in all these layers of fights. I mean, you know it happens. I mean, we're ashamed to say, but it's this has happened more than one time in our marriage.

We've gotten so far into a fight that we stopped and one of us would say, wait, what did we start fighting about? What was what I don't remember anymore and I'm trying to see if I can get back to that. And and and and and either one of us will say, well, it was because of this. And then, wasn't.

Think it was because of this. They're like, no, it was this. What makes you think that? Well, because you came in and you acted this way, then you said that, and then I I go, you came in and went, me me me me me me. And then and and

and and then I said this, and then and then guess what? Now we got thirty minutes of fighting over what really started the fight. It's like crazy. And I know I'm describing a lot of people in this room, because I know we're normal, and and and so this happens. And that's because you didn't say it straight.

You didn't you didn't get Yep. And so how do you do that? Okay. Well, that's hard. What's the next thing you do? And here's how you know you're not saying it straight, is when you can't do the next step, which say it supportively.

That's speak the truth in love. If you're not using love as you're trying to get to the truth, you know you're not speaking the truth. Plain and simple.

It's it's it's it's the truth has to come in the form of love.

We have to say it supportively. It says in Philippians two three, and this is kinda why we get held up and we don't, Cause we don't choose to do this. He says don't be selfish. Don't try to impress others. Be humble. Think of others as better than yourselves. If you go into the moment,

I deserve this. I have an expectation of you. You did this. It's all you that you have already created a conflict that's not resolvable before you even talked. We we gotta be able to say it supportively. Yeah. Which saying it supportively also involves having the goal be resolution

versus victory. Yeah. Because If you don't seek resolution, it ends up in a revolution. This is true. Yes. Yeah. So also when you're just seeking victory, it it becomes now we're building cases, you know? So I'm just throwing things out Now like lowering up. Right. Lawyering up. Got it. On Hooked on phonics work for you. Gosh.

Anyway Right. So lawyering up, you know, proving making a case, which we kind of talked about even before, victory causes you to get either hysterical or historical. Yes. Exactly. Pulling out all evidences from past, you know And into the case files. Right. Right. This was back in January 2001. You said,

and I quote, like So true. Sadly, it's so true. Can't remember a grocery list, but we we become court stenographers when it comes to fights. Yeah. Hey. Read back what they said on that date. You said No. It's true. And then you become it just becomes now proving the other person wrong. That's all it is. It's it's a

you know, you said this, you you blame this on me, or you put this on me, or whatever. Well, now I'm just gonna prove you wrong. We're not getting to any resolution.

And like I said, when when when you have the runner and that the and you and you keep chasing it down trying to win and fight, and then you come and then running, and then finally turn and fight, that becomes brutal in that moment. Yeah. And and and and it becomes like a a a hardcore thing, like I said. Because like like the way

I have to admit, like, reality is if we have that happen and you turn and and and then it gets like a bar room brawl and I get stabbed in the neck, it becomes a

moment where I need to realize what I do in that moment is then I play high money like, oh, why you gotta be that way? See, you're the problem.

I I can talk about this calmly, and now you're just saying what you're saying to me. And and and and then you feel all like I'm holier than thou, and I have the I have the high ground. And then you're not being humble.

Mhmm. It's I'm telling you, if you are me and you got the combat boots, you think you got this high ground, and they're just the one that freaks out, and you forget. You go corner an animal, it's going to bite you. Well, peace If you get someone that wants peace and wants anything, like, you're gonna get

attacked, and then it's it's just as much your fault. And and so Yeah. Yeah. As to be fair, both repeaters and retreaters or combat boots and runners, we all can find our our moral high ground. You know, we could all like, well, I you know. Yeah. And then we're just we're just back in the cycle. Mhmm.

So So we gotta say it supportively. Yeah. Get your back to fight the problem, not the person. Mhmm. And and and seek resolution, not just a victory. And how do you get there? Well, these last two things. The the the next thing is if you're not gonna get there if you don't say it all.

You gotta address the full picture. You gotta address the full picture. In Proverbs four seven, it says, getting wisdom is the wisest thing you can do. Wisdom in the scripture is taking knowledge and truth

and actually applying it. Mhmm. It's not knowing something.

It's doing something with it. And and the problem is you have to have the right truth and you gotta apply it. And so it's why he said, whatever else you do, develop good judgment. Good judgment is how do you see a scenario? How do you see yourself? Do have good judgment on yourself? How do you have clarity?

So you need to say it all, but that what it needs to be is get to the right thing. In other words, you gotta say the last 10%

in most and this is great. I use this with our staff all the time. I've used this in leadership. This is awesome for any relationship you have is you try to resolve a conflict, and sometimes you spend two hours and then you there's hugs at the end. You felt it was good. Anybody do this? And then it seems like three days later, you're having some other version of the same fight again.

And then three days later, some sometimes you'll have it, and ten minutes later, you start the same version of the same fight in another kinda like, wait. I thought we resolved this nine and a half minutes ago. And and you can't understand, and you think you're taking crazy pills and you're caught in Groundhog Day.

And it's usually because you didn't get to that last 10%. That last 10% is really what is really the narratives? What is the thing going on? What is the real issue here? Because 90% of the problem you're having is in that 10% that you didn't talk about. And

there's lot of reasons why we won't say. Sometimes like, well that we kinda instinctively know that that's really the dark spot that I can't I can't go there. It'll just blow up. It won't work.

Yeah. Or you don't even know what the last 10% is because you're not becoming self aware and situationally aware enough. But for whatever reason, we spend all of our time on that 90% when 90% of the problem is in that 10%.

Yeah. And so say it all doesn't mean like, again, the combat people, yeah, I say it I say it straight. And maybe I could see it more supportively, but I will say it all. No.

No. You probably not. Matter of fact, it's so funny. When I were analyzed myself on this, say it supportively is probably the best thing I do in this. Because I try to be as nice as possible

as I'm saying it without understanding, saying it straight, which means I it's all about my narrative and the selfishly. And I'm saying it all because I'm gonna tell you all the things that you're doing wrong. That's that that right? Yeah. Say it all? Yeah. So there's a a kind of a saying that we have in our family

that it's say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean. Yeah. Which I think is really great. Very doctor Seuss like. We love it. Yeah. No. And it's real clear. It's Carrie. She said it. No. Someone said it to me, and it was it was so helpful. No. It wasn't.

No. So so I love it. Say what you mean, mean what you say, don't say it mean. So I think though for a long time I confused it because I think I thought it said say what you mean and say it mean.

Sometimes maybe just say it mean. True. Yeah. Say it and say it mean. So just a little example of our life, but before I share all of this I need you to know I am a changed woman, mostly. I I it's been a long time since this is a thing, maybe for the most part. You define long time. No.

But but you know we're in this we're in this cycle of you know the combat boot or the repeating and running shoes are retreating and you know I'm I'm I'm working through all the things and he was like coming at me and wants to address it and deal with it and I I feel like he's kind of

kind of poked the bear just one too many times and all the feelings or emotions are all there but I just I'm trying not to deal with it, but then I I can't anymore and so it just erupts in this explosion of profanities and expletives and and really really mean things. And it it feels really good.

Just just for a few seconds.

Because you know you realize like I was kind of toxic. So

then we'll we'll talk about it and we'll work through whatever the argument was or the conflict was. But he comes back later and he'll say you know, Kerry I I know that that was interruption of your emotions and your feelings and all that stuff, but we really have to talk about it because it was really hurtful.

We need to address this. I'm like, Bill, you know I don't really hate you and want you to go to hell.

Hear what I meant not what I said. The truth is that's the most church friendly one that she could she can share. I hate you and you should go to hell. So we can move on to the other If I'm being honest, instead of getting mad like guys tend to, I have to say, when you hit below the belt like that, a little piece of me died.

And I don't know how many pieces of me can die. Mhmm. And and that's why you need to say it all, but get to the heart of what it is. Because

saying it all is also like when I said the comment was like I I said like I've realized too, it's not just about when I'm trying to be self aware, my narrative is not just I need to win, and I wanna be right, and I wanna win quick. I realized part of our temperament is is is is when she pulls away,

it really affects like I can't handle not dealing with it right now. Mhmm. I feel very insecure and frustrated with that. And then I get mad because that's how I am,

because I'm a guy, because she can sit there and we can have a fight and she just wants to not talk about it then and and just act like we're done for a minute. We need to settle let let let this sit. And then she rolls over and she is asleep within And

I don't know why. In my own heart, it's like I could never do that. So I feel I start going, how cold is she? How how she's fallen asleep while we were arguing. Because I kept going, I'm repeating and repeating. I'll just talk. I became like that ambient background. Was just like the waves crashing quietly.

And I talked one time for five minutes and then she I heard her snore. I was like, wait, how long has she not been listening? And to me, the narrative is, how cold can you be? I would because my lamwired,

that would be so disrespectful and wrong. And you know what the reality was? She was just really tired and I wanted to keep fighting. And I had to learn that part of the reason I can't let it go is because it hits up against my instincts. Like it felt like, well now she's just in control. Like, I don't care about you.

Mhmm. And I had to understand that sometimes, you know, giving a break there helps. Yeah. And that's kinda leads into this this last point. Yeah.

Is is you gotta say it all, but you gotta say it soon. Don't wait to address issues. Like look, Ephesians four. I told you I'd get to this verse that's often misquoted in the beginning by us combat boot people. Don't sin by letting anger control you. Don't let the sun go down while you're still angry, for anger gives a foothold to the devil. Mhmm. A lot of times we use that verse

to say that's why we have to talk. You realize it doesn't even talk about the other person at this point. It's just telling you to don't let that anger fester. Deal with it. And if you have to deal with it, you gotta get to someone else. So you gotta say it soon.

You do have to say it soon, but say it soon doesn't mean say it now. I, out of my insecurity, would use that to say, and this is why we need to talk right now. It wasn't just I want a quick win. That was just added bonus. It was like, I won't feel bad and uncomfortable and insecure if I get you to fight now, and there's good chance I could win this fight.

And the reality is, say it soon just means don't let the devil get the footle. What's the devil's footle? The devil is believe lies. He's a liar. And the longer you let something sit, the more your narrative takes over. And you write a narrative,

you give the other person their becauses. You give you write into the story, she falls asleep because she just doesn't care about me. And and and and and that's the those things build. Then you file them away if you don't ever really deal with them. And then when a fight breaks out, it all comes out.

And and that's basically we've saved up a lot of bullets and we're not leaving one in the chamber. So say it soon doesn't really mean it means I tell our staff when you have an issue to deal with with someone else, be bold so you won't be brutal later.

Be bold early so you won't be brutal later. And bold, I don't mean tough bold like bold. Have the boldness to be willing to have the courage to go have the conversation. And

and it's the same. But like I said, it doesn't mean say it soon doesn't mean it right now. Matter of fact, even at first, if if you say don't let the anger go down, you have to have the conversation. You ever use that? We gotta have this conversation before the sun goes down. How many of you fight after dark?

Does that mean, well, we don't have to deal with this till tomorrow by 06:22?

We got plenty of time. But what if it's 06:15? We're gonna be sinners if we don't solve this problem in seven minutes. Makes no sense. It's not say it now, it's just don't let it linger. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And I had a couple thoughts on this. Also, saying it soon,

again, just to your point, you can say can you give me a minute on this, like I do need some time, or you know whatever it is, but I will come back. You know we will deal with it, but I just I kind of love this part too when you're both willing to come in and to especially for the the retreater or the runner,

to be willing to deal with it soon. It is it kind of reminds me a little bit of of last week when you're willing to to be vulnerable and talk about it even amidst that fear and that insecurity and all of that, like if I don't run, he doesn't feel so necessary. He doesn't feel like he has to come at me so boldly.

Yeah. And when I recognize that he's not coming at me so boldly and hard and like we have to deal with it, I'm more apt to come talk to him. So it's sort of that like Hiking. If we become we hike it together. But it's that willingness to kinda go against what my natural instincts are, what I really want to do,

and what the other person wants to do. And you stop fighting each other and you start fighting the actual terrain Yeah. Together to get to the better view and to be healthy. Yep. And and it and it is. And then I'd learned that when I had to be honest, were so many times that I would she didn't wanna give a minute, and then and then I would try to get into the fight soon. I'd get angry. We get up, then she turns and it becomes a bar room brawl. I'm stabbed in the neck,

told to go to hell and stuff like that. That's the nicer one, she said. But

and then I get hurt, then I'm fighting that, and it's bad. And then one time I just got so frustrated that because once she got better at turning and fighting anyways, I couldn't get the quick victory. She's quicker on her feet. So I was like, this ain't working. And you'd think I would come to this conclusion from some spiritual reason, but it wasn't. It was like, I can't even get the quick win. So it was like now I'm just I started a fight.

You know, my body, you know, wrote a check. I wrote a check that my body can't cash in a sense. Like I started to get into this fight, and I'm like, no. I'm overwhelmed, man. I I need to retreat. Friendly fire. Save myself. Get out of here. But

it dawned me once I was just not going anywhere with this fight, and I just looked at her out of frustration and whatever. Just said, all I'm trying to say is when you did this I got really sad. That's all I said.

And I said it like in a defeatist like, I don't know what else to say. And her old demeanor changed. She gave me a hug and we cried and we were fine. And it's like and she looked at me after I said, then she goes, you should've just led with that.

But I didn't lead with that because I couldn't admit that, because I didn't realize that, because I was caught up in the narrative and the fears and the insecurities and and that you have to do something for me and all the stuff we talked about last week.

And so that's kinda why we need to say it. Say it straight. Say it supportively. Say it all. And say it soon. Set a time to to talk and work on it. And and here's why we know this works. In conclusion,

is because we just used these steps less than forty eight hours ago when we were attempting to walk through what we were gonna do up here together.

We had to use the steps to get us through the walkthrough of how we were gonna talk about the steps that we're gonna tell you guys to use. And and here's why. We're wired very different. And and Carrie, isn't she she's a rock star up here by the way. Is she not? She's always good at this.

And the way she's wired, I believe in her that she's good, that we didn't even need to have anything written down. We could've come up here and just talked about it, and she would've just killed it.

And the problem is me telling her to do that and trying to get to do that stresses her out to the point that she wants to kill me.

Because I prepare very different. She writes lots of stuff down. I shouldn't write stuff down because there's stuff I need to forget. She doesn't wanna forget important things. There's I if I don't forget things, we're here all day. And and and so

as we're going so we have this process that makes hard. She hasn't been up in a while because there's been reasons why she just wasn't able to last time she wasn't able to do it, and so so she gets insecure about it.

And so then I act like it's fine. And then we had a busy week, so I was like like, we got the outline. We got all that. And I gave her the stuff. Was like, hey, just think about what you wanna I'm done. We're ready to go. And she's like, so

then she bothers me on Thursday night. She's like, we've never talked about this. It's Thursday. And like, alright, tomorrow we'll talk. And and I go when I get back from work, get a meetings in the morning. I usually have meetings in the morning, but I always reserve my afternoon to go over my message. So as I she knows that I'm usually done by like two at the latest.

But I never told her that one of these meetings was gonna go long, and I and and and I didn't I walked out of here to go home at five in the afternoon. So now it's like less than twenty four hours before we're supposed to be doing this. And I looked down and there's a text before I get in my car that's like, you know, the all bold you're getting yelled at kinda stuff.

And it's like, Bill, when are you going to come home?

I go, we we we have to we haven't even talked through this. I'm feeling really stressed out and uncomfortable about this. And then in all it was really bolder way. She goes, we have less than twenty four hours till we take the stage with this, and we've not talked about it. Like now it's like so you know, I read that and now I'm tensing up because I'm going back to our history of every time we get up here to talk about marriage,

getting ready to talk about our marriage is what challenges our marriages the most.

And so I'm like, here we go again. It starts going in my head. And I'm like, this is crazy. And so then I come already tense. She's stressed. By the time I got him, because I realized how long ago she had texted it, and I never responded because I had it on do not disturb. So her narrative is, he's not even responding to my text.

What a jerk. You know? And and he needs to go to hell. And and and I don't care if he dies first. He just needs to go to hell.

And so I come home. That's what we walk into. And she's stressed out. I go, alright. Let's do this. Because I'm like, I'm just trying to I'm a fixer. Let's just you know what? I realized, let's just fix the bridle. And but I had this ad. It'll be alright. It's great. We have plenty of time. All you have to do is walk through this once when we get she's like, yeah. And then and yeah. Yeah. It's in my head.

It's the feeling. It's like, she's not doing it. It's like, but we only have less than twenty four hours and like whatever. And I go I I go, let's do it. You think I sound like No. That's not at all. That's what my that's where my narrative goes in my head. Alright. And and and and I sound worse in my own head, so don't worry. Yeah. And and and so then I'm I'm sitting here saying, wait. Well, so then let's do it. She's like, I can't do it right now. I'm too overwhelmed. I'm like, you're the one that made it a Mission Impossible movie.

You have twenty four hours to save the world. And now you're like, let's wait twelve more hours.

And then I'm like, what are you talking about? Now you're stressing me out. And so we start to get into the saying and as we're talking about it, we she's like, fine. And so we start going through it. We get to say it straight. And we're not saying it straight at all at this moment. And it breaks down and we end up in this moment where I said vice versa.

And she goes, it's vice versa.

Here's another branched reality from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It was like I go, no it's not. It's vice versa. It's vice versa. And I she walks away to do something in the in the bathroom while we're still talking. I was like

And she doesn't even see me, and she just hears me go, and she yells. She goes, it's vice versa, isn't it? She knew I looked it up.

And so then we're like, come on. It's fine fine. It's not that. And then I'm like all frustrated and we gotta talk. We started talking. I had to walk into the closet to get something and I'm going, we're never gonna get through this. We're never gonna get through this. And so then I go, I'm trying to help. I'm trying to help, but I'm I'm doing it from this point of view now.

And all of sudden, possibly, my narrative says, she's hurting my feelings, but I won't say it that way. It's like I'm getting so frustrated because she doesn't believe me when I tell her what a good communicator she is and how she's wired.

She doesn't have to write everything down. She just is these things. They just we can just have a conversation about them. We've done it a million times. We've sat in rooms with people and just got into a conversation and did what we did here with with nothing written down. And I just want her to trust me on that that she doesn't have to stress. We'll be fine.

That's really what is my heart. But where my head went to how to do this was, you know why she does that? Because she doesn't respectfully support me. Like we said last week, what respect for support is. But I also remember the guy that said that on stage said,

you can't tell your spouse that. You're the one person that can't tell them that. So what do you think I turned and was gonna about to do? Here's the difference. I was about to do. That's the thing we've learned. Thirty three years,

and I was about to say you don't respectfully support me. You just need to trust me on this. It got to here. It's thirty three years. All I did was move it that far back, but that was enough. If I would have said that, it would have been beer bottle to the neck.

Because that wasn't saying it straight. I I I knew in my heart what I meant was good. But I can't tell her that because that's I went back into this is your problem.

And and and so I walked back out there and I realized just this little gap. I looked at her and she turned her head at me like you could tell she had been thinking about how this isn't working right and calmed down too. And I smiled. I go, you know what I think we need to do? She's like, what? I go, I think we need to fight the problem, not the person.

Ta da. And so then we literally, as we walked through this, we used every step to walk through the issue to help us walk through the message. Amen? So we know it works. Mhmm. Because we just did it. And that's why we're still married. We're still up here, and I'm not dead and in hell right now.

Amen? Amen for me. Thanks, Carrie, for being up here. Thank you for having And me up let let me pray. Father God, I just thank you, Lord, that that you love us so much. I thank you that I get to do this with my wife.

I thank you that you uniquely wired us, that even though we've had to have some high climbs and some valleys we've walked through, we've been able to hike through them together, and we've seen some beautiful vistas,

and we have a lot more health because of it. And Lord, I just pray that each one of us, anyone watching online, anyone in this room with any relationship they have, that they would have the courage, The courage to try to approach those tough conversations

with an attitude that says, I'm gonna fight this problem and not this person. I pray this in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen. Hey. Love you guys. Thanks for being here.

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